My computer freezes irregularly

Question

My computer started to freeze at irregular times for 3 weeks now.

Please note that this question change with each things that i try. (For additional details)

What happens

• My computer freezes, the video stops. (No graphic glitches, it just stops)
• Sounds stops too.
• Sometimes, randomly, the screen on my G-15 keyboard flickers and I see characters not at the right places. Usually happens for about 1-2 seconds and a bit before my computer freezes.
• I have to keep the power button pressed for 4 seconds to shut my computer down.
• I still hear my hard drives and fans working.
• Sometimes it works with no problems for a full day, some other times it just keeps freezing each time I restart my computer and I have to leave it for the rest of the day.
• Sometimes my mouse freezes for a fraction of a second (Like 0.01 to 0.2 seconds) quite randomly, usually before it freezes.
• No errors spotted by the "Action center" unlike when I had problems with my last video card on this system (Driver errors).
• My G-15 LCD screen also freezes.
• Sometimes my G-15 LCD screen flickers and characters gets carried around temporary under heavy load.
• Now, most of the times, the BIOS hard disks boot order gets reversed for some reason and I have to put it to the right one and save each times I boot. (Might be unrelated, not sure, but it first started yesterday)

What I did so far

• I have had similar problems in the past and I had changed my hard drive (It was faulty), so I tested my software RAID-0 array and it was faulty so I changed it. (I reinstalled Windows 7 with this part). I also tested with unplugging my secondary hard drive.
• My CPU was running at about 100 degree Celsius, I removed the dust between the fans and the heat sink and it's now between 45-55.
• I ran a CPU stress-test and it didn't froze during the tests (using Prime95 on all cores)
• Ran a memory test (using memtest86+) for a single pass and there were no errors.
• Ran a GPU stress test with ati-tools and furmark and it didn't froze during the tests. (No artefacts either)
• I had troubles with my graphic card when I got it, but I think that it got fixed with a driver update.
• I checked the voltages in my BIOS setup and they all seemed ok (±0.2 I think).
• I have run on the computer without problems with Fedora 15 on an external hard drive (apart that it couldn't load Gnome 3 and was reverting to Gnome 2, didn't want to install drivers since I use it on multiple computers) I used it to back up my files from the raid array to my 1TB hard drive for the reinstallation of Windows. (So the crashes only happened on Windows) [The external hard drive is plugged directly on a SATA port]
• I contacted EVGA (My graphic card vendor) and pointed them on this question, I'm looking for an answer.
• Ran sensors on Fedora 15 and got this output: http://pastebin.com/0BHJnAvu
• Ran 6 short different CPU stress test on Fedora 15 (Haven't found any complete stress testers for Linux) and it didn't crash.
• Changed the thermal paste to some Artic Silver 5 for my CPU and stress tested the CPU, temperature was at 50 idle, then 64 highest and slowly went down to 62 during the test.
• Ran some stress testing with a temporary graphic card and it went ok.
• Ran furmark stress test with my original graphic card and it froze again. GPU had a temp of 74C, a CPU temp of 58C and a mobo temp of 40C or 45C (Dunno which one it is from SpeedFan).
• Ran a furmark stress test and a CPU stress test at the same time, results: http://pastebin.com/2t6PLpdJ
• I have been using my computer without stressing it for about 2 hours now and no crashes yet. I also have disabled the AMD Cool'n'quiet function on the BIOS for a more regular power to the CPU. When I ran Furmark without C'n'q my computer didn't freeze but I had a "Driver Kernel Error" that have recovered (And Furmark crashed) all that while running a CPU stress test. The computer eventually froze without me being at it, but this time my screen just went on sleep and I couldn't wake it.
• Using the stability tester in nTune my computer froze again (In the same manner as before). I noticed that Speedfan gives me a -12V of -16.97V and a -5V of -8.78V.
• I have swapped my G-15 with another basic USB keyboard (HP) and I have run furmark for about 10 minutes with a CPU stability test running each 60 seconds for 30 seconds and my computer haven't crashed yet.
• Ran some more extended tests without my G-15 and it freeze like it usually do.
• Removed the nForce Hard disk controller.
• Disabled command queuing in the NVIDIA nForce SATA Controller for both port 0 and port 1 (Errors from the logs)
• Used CPUID HwMonitor, here are the voltages: http://pastebin.com/dfM7p4jV
• Changed some configurations in the motherboard BIOS: Disabled PEG Link Mode, Changed AI Tuning to Standard, Disabled the 1394 Controller, Disabled HD Audio, Disabled JMicron RAID controller and Disabled SATA Raid.
• "A little hope", my computer frozen while watching a youtube video, but not from GPU and CPU 10 hours straight test.
• I have put my BIOS back to defaults and: Disabled PEG Link Mode, Disabled HD Audio, Disabled JMicron RAID Controler, Disabled Serial Port Address, Disabled Parallel Port Address and Disabled Onboard 1394 Controller.
• I changed the SATA cable for the 750GB hard drive and I also changed the slots at which they were plugged (1->2, 2->3, 3->4).
• Changed the power saving feature of my graphic card from "Adaptive" to "Maximum performance".
• Ran ECGA OC Scanner and got no freeze and no artifacts
• I installed the Logitech drivers for my G-15 keyboard and my G-500 mouse and it restarted to freeze.
• I removed the Logitech drivers for my G-15 keyboard and my G-500 mouse and it still freeze.
• After changing everything except the hard drives, graphic card and power supply my computer is running very fine and I haven't run into any problems (This is with the exact same install of Windows that I had problems with my old motherboard). After removing my motherboard I have found some cambered capacitors (2) which might be the source of the problems. Since it almost clearly was a motherboard problem caused by these capacitors I am going to accept the answer that is the most related to this solution.

When it happens

• When I play video games (Mostly)
• When I play flash games (Second most)
• When I'm looking at my desktop background (It rarely happens when I have a window open, but it does, sometimes)
• When my Graphic card and my CPU are stressed.
• Sometimes when my Graphic card is stressed.
• Sometimes when my CPU is stressed.

Specs

• Windows Seven x64 Home Premium
• Motherboard: M2N-SLI Deluxe
• Graphic card: EVGA GTX 570 (The non-oc one) [nVidia driver version 275.33 from EVGA's website]
• CPU: AMD Phenom 9950 x2 @ 2.6GHz
• Memory: Kingston 4x2GB Dual Channel (Pretty basic memory sticks)
• Hard drives: Was 2x250GB (Western digital caviar) in raid-0 + 1TB (WD caviar black), I replaced the raid array with a 750GB (WD caviar black) [Yes I removed the array from the raid configurations]
• 750W Power supply
• No overclocking. Ever.
• There have been some power-downs like 4-5 weeks ago, but the problem didn't start immediately after. (I wasn't home, so my computer got shut-down)
• Event logs (Warnings, errors and critical errors) for the last 24 hours: http://pastebin.com/Bvvk31T7

I would like to thank everyone who have been participating, it's really nice to see that much people ready to help others. There was many great answers that might help other people with similar problems in the future (at least I hope so).

In this situation, how can I successfully pin-point the current hardware problem? (If it's a hardware problem)

Solution 1

100 deg C is WAY too hot! It's possible that your processor has already incurred some damage. But in the interest of being optimistic, I'd say to run memtest86 for another 2 passes to be sure it's not the memory. Are you sure the timings and speeds are being detected correctly?

Did you check your motherboard for bad/puffy capacitors? If it's not your motherboard, then your PSU is either going bad on you, or is insufficient to power your hardware. That sounds like the most likely cause to me.

Use CoreTemp to measure CPU temps, since it's one of the most accurate programs around. Don't use ATI Tool, as it's incompatible with Windows 7. Try RivaTuner instead.

Solution 2

First off, +1 for a perfectly documented question. This makes things AMAZINGLY easier for us to help.

You've done a lot of hardware testing to date and most come up with no problems. However, this may still be a CPU overheating problem (been there and it sucks). When you cleaned the dust, did you see any thermal paste between the CPU and the heatsink? If so, was it dried up or old? I recommend buying a small tube of Arctic Silver thermal paste (7$) and applying some to the CPU.

If that's not the issue, then I strongly suggest you start looking at your operating system and if it has any issues. You said you've run Fedora on it? I would recommend burning a Linux LiveCD and booting from it. Try using that as your OS for a bit, browsing and playing music/videos and stuff. If you don't get a crash there, that means that its either a Windows issue or a HDD issue (seeing as you aren't using it in a live environment). I would (from the LiveCD) run a disk check just to make sure. If everything comes up clean, we can safely say its Windows.

In that case, you need to determine if its your OS which is corrupted or you've installed something that is running some kind of service which locks your computer up. Give Windows safe mode a try and use that for a bit (I know, horrible resolution...I'm so sorry). If you don't get a freeze for a couple days then we can narrow it down to a Windows OS issue, in which case you need to look at backups or re-installation.

If you're re-installing your OS, make sure you back all your stuff up...

http://xkcd.com/612/

EDIT: While running in your LiveCD session, open up a terminal and type sensors. If that program is installed (Linux only), it will give you details about your power supply voltages, CPU temp, mobo temp, and everything else you need to know. Monitoring that while in your LiveCD session should give you strong indicators to whether this is hardware or software.

EDIT 2: Based on what you've said about running Fedora on another HDD via eSATA and not experiencing any crashes I would have to say that this is a software issue, maybe drivers. If you can run Fedora for, let's say a whole week without a crash, it's for sure an issue with Windows or deprecated/wrong drivers. How long did you run Fedora for? Did you try watching movies, playing games etc on it?

Solution 3

The first thought I have is that your power supply may be going bad. Playing games or watching youtube may kick your grfx card into hi gear and increase power draw. Also watch those cpu temps 100 degrees ...yikes

Solution 4

I have a laptop with windows 7 x64 ultimate that suffers of the same random crashes. I have noticed they happen mostly at home, when my G15 keyboard is plugged in. I do not remember to encounter those crashes when I use the laptop keyboard.

The G15 draws a lot of power on the USB plug. Maybe it has something to do with it ?

Solution 5

Using the stability tester in nTune my computer freezed again (In the same manner as before). I notived that Speedfan gives me a -12V of -16.97V and a -5V of -8.78V.

Replace the power supply. These voltages are far out of spec and could be the cause of your problem.

Edit: The negative rails are rarely used today; however, the HWMonitor temperature is too high for temperature sensor 2 if the system is not under load. This could be a problem with the cooling system, motherboard, or power supply.

View more solutions

Comments

[slhck]

On a side note: This must have been one of the best documented "I have a computer problem" questions I've seen in a long time here.

[maaudet]

@slhck When I propose my problems to users who give me help for free I always try to give them all the information they will need before they ask for them.

[Wuffers]

@Manhim: That's an awesome way of thinking about it. And more people should think that way, IMO.

[Ross]

@Manhim - I experienced something extremely similiar - sporadic crashes; tested all my hardware; new hard disk + mobo. I'm sure it's not relevant, but on the off chance: have you checked the event logs for an event ID 11 error. In my case, I kept getting tens of thousands of these (The driver detected a controller error on \Device\Ide\IdePort2.. Turns out I had a faulty CDROM that was causing some kind of ridiculous conflict. Changing the CDROM drive and the SATA port it was on remedied the problems instantly. You mentioned the action centre, but not the logs. If it helps, it helps!

[maaudet]

@Ross I have posted a copy of my Event logs, I don't have something similar but I have a few warnings that correlate drivers, could it be related?

[n0pe]

@Manhim have you tried installing linux to disk and running from there yet?

[maaudet]

@MaxMackie Not yet, but plugging a hard drive on sata isn't enough? (With linux pre-installed)

[n0pe]

@Manhim: Yeah that would be enough. Your external was plugged in an eSATA port or was your case open and it was plugged right in the motherboard?

[maaudet]

@MaxMackie I have a 2.5 inch hard drive in a case that I just have to put in my computer in a specific slot. It's straight SATA to the hard drive and is hot-swappable. Quite usefull.

[TuxRug]

Faving and upvoting primarily for the level of detail. If only all users could be this cooperative!

[n0pe]

@Manhim: Updated my answer.

[n0pe]

@Manhim: Seems like you're on the right track. Hopefully your latest tests show a hardware issue.

[bwDraco]

@Manhim, I've nominated this question for Top Question of the Week #22, since you have put an astounding amount of effort in documenting all of the steps you have taken in trying to diagnose and fix the problem.

[maaudet]

@DragonLord :3 @MaxMackie I will have the results tomorrow, I'm going keep this question updated.

[maaudet]

Results: Still freeze :(

[Anarko_Bizounours]

maybe your computer freeze because of the temperature inside the computer. (happen to mine when it's hot like in summer) Try using a big fan (like this one newphotosgalleries.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/…) to ventilate directly the computer.

[n0pe]

@Manhim: Sucks to hear you're still having issues. Careful when flashing your BIOS, if not done correctly it will create more problems than it solves. Also, I assume you've tried a completely new powersupply? I know the output of 'sensors' say that the voltage rails are fine but you never know...

[n0pe]

Could it be a flash related issue? I've heard of faulty flash installations causing crashing. Either way, we KNOW that hardware is the end point of the problem, but I'm wondering if software doesn't spark the problem to begin with. You've stress tested all your components fairly well and we can't deny the results.

[n0pe]

@Manhim, hmmm I really still feel it's a driver thing. Probably the graphics driver. I say this because your hardware seems fine (you've tested this yourself) and when using another OS with another driver (probably an opensource one if it was Fedora) and everything was fine.

[maaudet]

@MaxMackie I hadn't installed any drivers when running on Fedora and I hadn't tested the GPU.

[maaudet]

@MaxMackie well it's possible, it haven't crashed when I disabled the power saving option. Now I need to know what is causing this issue.

[n0pe]

@Manhim: Would moving to Linux be an option? :)

[maaudet]

@MaxMackie It's both my development and my gaming machine :3 So not really.

[n0pe]

@Manhim: Yeah gaming isn't a Linux forte just yet. Do you know which driver you're using? Exactly?

[maaudet]

@MaxMackie nVidia Driver version 275.33, got it from EVGA's website.

[n0pe]

@Manhim: Have you tried an older version? I googled your driver and it has some flash specific issues that cause the same symptoms as you're having. I've read the 266.58 version is better.

[maaudet]

@MaxMackie It also happens when playing games, it's not flash specific. I've asked EVGA and I think that they'll answer with the right drivers to use if it's a known issue.

[n0pe]

@Manhim: Let us know what they say. I know it happens during games, but a faulty driver in some areas might mean that it has issues in other places.

[lamwaiman1988]

Spend some bucks and send the computer to shop for a checking~

[maaudet]

The thing is that it never happen instantly after I start a game or flash, it's usually after 2 to 5 minutes.

[maaudet]

I'm going to run to the store and buy some thermal paste. I think that it's been a year that I haven't changed it, might give this a try. For the OS, I already have reinstalled it when I changed my raid array to a single hard drive (My important stuff is on a network-hard-drive on one of my servers).

[maaudet]

I'm going to check with sensors right now. I will put the results on my main post.

[n0pe]

Did you reinstall Windows from the same image/install the same kind of software once it was reinstalled? If you didn't then yeah we definitely have a hardware problem.

[maaudet]

I installed it from the original Windows DVD. Also, I have no package named sensors on Fedora 15. Also, I'm quite sure that it's a hardware problem too, but I,d need to know how to pin-point what to replace so I don't start to replace everything :|

[maaudet]

Then only thing I found similar is lm_sensors, but it's just a set of libraries and the gnome plugin for sensors monitoring is likely bugger (Says it's installed while it shows uninstalled). When I run the "System profiler and benchmark" software there is nothing shown in the sensors section.

[n0pe]

Try burning a copy of OpenSuse. That's what I currently use and I believe it shipped with it. If not, I'm looking at the package right now in YaSt.

[maaudet]

I found it, it came with lm_sensors, hadn't looked on my termninal after installing it (Was looking for, well, lm_sensors). Output in my main question in about 20 seconds.

[maaudet]

@MaxMackie let us continue this discussion in chat

[Tamara Wijsman]

@Manhim: THIS! After barely reading your question, I'm very certain that this is the problem. I've had this exact same situation where I swapped everything around in the computer only to see that it was the power supply. It even started to affect my room lightning and was going into black screen or reboot shorter and shorter over a long time. Your version seems a light case of this, but I would suggest to get another power supply before replacing other more costly hardware. Also, the power-drones might have started this...

[Tamara Wijsman]

This doesn't necessarily have to start in the beginning of a game (which is less demanding in terms of the CPU/GPU combination), but might kick in later when something scheduled starts to run in Windows in the mean time. That tiny peak in CPU/GPU usage will be enough to demand too much power of the supply, where it will simply cut down the higher voltage outputs...

[maaudet]

@Tim Wijsman I'm currently running Furmark and a CPU stability test and it seems stable. I never tested with both together, I'm going to try that with my other graphic card after a couple tests (Just in case) [This temporary one is just a Quadro 1500 VS a GTX 570, power consumption should be different.

[maaudet]

@Tim Wijsman I ran some test with my original graphic card and put up some results in my original post. Please note that I still actually see what is on the screen and that my computer is still up, do you think it could only be my graphic card or is it still the power supply?

[maaudet]

I dunno if it would make a difference big enough to freeze my computer and I think that if it would be that problem then the motherboard's MESFETs are probably going wrong. I've started looking at this.

[maaudet]

Well, it seems to be working so far o.O. I still need to do some more testing but it would be a kind-of-amazing solution to this problem. On the other hand, I like my G-15 very much and the problems started at a random time, I've been having this setup for like 6 months with 5 of them without problems (Graphic card swap).

[Johan Buret]

I like my G15 too. I don't want to scrap it either; so one other solution would be to plug the keyboard on a powered USB hub

[maaudet]

Mm, seems to have crashed with another USB keyboard :| So it at least isolate the problem to power-based stuff like Power supply and motherboard.

[maaudet]

Is there an alternate software that I could use to check these values?

[bwDraco]

I personally use CPUID HWMonitor.

[maaudet]

@DragonLord Here are the results: pastebin.com/dfM7p4jV

[bwDraco]

Unfortunately, there aren't any data for the negative voltage rails. All of the positive voltage rails are within ATX specification (±5% for positive rails, ±10% for negative rails, see page 22 of the ATX specification). However, the negative rails are seldom used today, and temperature sensor 2 appears to be too high unless the system is under load.

[maaudet]

@DragonLorg The system was idling at this time and comming from a cold-boot.

[maaudet]

The thing is that I don't want to install the drivers much on Fedora because they are 1- quite unstable and 2- I use this install on multiple computers :| . I noticed something else although, my BIOS boot order always get reset to the wrong values which are not even the default one and I'm really wondering why.

[n0pe]

I don't think the changing boot order is a big deal, my motherboard does that sometimes as well. If you want you can try resetting the BIOS by removing the CMOS battery for a couple seconds. This will restore all settings to factory default. Maybe your order will stay then. As for the freezing, I'm almost positive its a software issue. You seem to have stress tested every component in your system to no avail.

[maaudet]

I' reinstalling Windows right now and I'm going to leave it bare-bone without any softwares exept Google Chrome and Furmark so I can stress it and test with Windows' default drivers. Before that ima try resetting the BIOS and disabling the on-board sound devices, just in case, heard it was causing troubles.

[maaudet]

There is 3 tip version for my motherboard's BIOS, Beta 1804, Beta 5001 and 1701, should I update my BIOS and with which one?

[n0pe]

Updating BIOS usually (unless done very carefully) creates more problems then it does solve them. Unless your BIOS version is not compatible with your hardware, you shouldn't change it.

[maaudet]

Well, it seems to be compatible, although I bought my motherboard about 6-8 months before my CPU and the motherboard was still old, so maybe a part of this problem could be related to the BIOS being outdated?

[n0pe]

It could be, but I highly doubt it. You know what might be worth your while? Bring your computer to a computer repair shop and have them do a checkup. Ask them to look at your problem and test your hardware. This should only cost 50$ and would give you a pretty direct answer on if it is hardware or not. I've had to do this before and its better than going out and buying new hardware you might not need.

[maaudet]

I'm going to stress it without anything installed (bare-bone Windows seven x64) after running all the Windows Updates. If it still glitches I'm going to flash the CMOS (I already have done that when I was working in a Computer Shop a couple times). The thing is that I have a few friends who either work at or used to work at computer shops and they most agree that it would be either a power problem (motherboard and/or power supply) or a heat problem (motherboard) and they suggested replacing the motherboard (either to test or final).

[n0pe]

Everything DOES point to hardware, but from all the tests you've done away from your Windows OS, I get that its software. This is indeed a confusing problem, and replacing the motherboard might work (and to be honest, would be easier). What's getting at me is the fact that the computer still have lights and you said you can hear/see the fans moving. If this is a power supply issue, its a weird one.

[maaudet]

Yeah, it's a very strange issue that I'm getting. Most of the things are pointing at the motherboard. I'm going to do the tests with the bare-bone windows and if it doesn't work I think that I will have to buy a new motherboard :/ .

[maaudet]

Please note that it's the 3rd time that I reinstall Windows in an attempt to fix this issue.

[Ammu]

Right, this is probably not the way to go then

[maaudet]

Well, tests are going good so far, I don't want to be hasty about the conclusion though but it lasted longer then ever did since I have this problem.

[maaudet]

My graphic card is a GTX 570. I'm gonna try the equivalent for this card and I'll see.

[Ben Voigt]

@Manhim: You should add that to the Specs section of the question, since it's potentially important.

[maaudet]

I was sure I had added it :| It's in now, sorry.

[maaudet]

I tried without power savings and it seems to be a lot more stable. Do you know what would cause this? The graphic card itself? The power supply? The motherboard? Or is it just driver problems?

[Ben Voigt]

@Manhim: Changing voltages and clock frequencies always creates an interval in transition, where the logic isn't working right. The card should be forced idle during that interval, it's a design error in the GPU if it tries to resume computing before the transition is complete. Also, any number of things can affect the exact duration of that transition (temperature, variation in capacitor values), in which case sometimes the transition occurs safely and sometimes you get errors.

[Ben Voigt]

@Manhim: My personal solution has been to just leave GPU power saving disabled. It'll sleep when the rest of my system does, and not idle quite as cool as it should, but stability is more important to me.

[maaudet]

@Ban Voigt I'm sending EVGA's staff here and maybe they'll either have the same explanation or find something else.

[CarlF]

@Manhim, if any of your friends has a multimeter or voltmeter, borrowing it for 10 minutes would let you directly measure voltages coming off the power supply.

[maaudet]

With CoreTemp I get an average of 50 degree celsius in idle for the CPU #0 (Only CPU shown).

[maaudet]

I had downloaded the latest version the same day I ran the tests.

[Andrejs Cainikovs]

Why? 4 seconds is the standard time to turn off the power, and this option is set in BIOS. Are you telling me that your computer never freezed and you never had to push the power button for 4 seconds to toggle the power? Or are you doing the same by plugging the power cord back and forth?

[Andrejs Cainikovs]

Now I got your idea.

[maaudet]

So basically it would end up freezing because there is some electric charge holded somewhere and I would need to discharge the components each times before boots for my computer to work? (I mean, that would pin-point a motherboard or a power supply problem depending on the capacitors on the motherboard)

[Tamara Wijsman]

@Manhim: Please note that my name is Tom, I wasn't informed of your comments. I'm referring to the power supply as I feel it's most likely that. Your VDDC is 23% less than 1.2V, is that idle or under stress? I think that's not enough and that a more stable / stronger power supply is required...

[maaudet]

@Tom Wijsman Sorry, I'm dyslectic. I have ordered another power supply and I will be able to test with it. I should receive it next week.

[maaudet]

It was the motherboard. Thanks for pointing it out. I found out about it when I removed my graphic card, they were hidden underneath it.

[Pacerier]

@Manhim, @ Bigbio, how is it possible for it to be 100 deg? Isn't that the boiling temperature of water?

[Bigbio2002]

That's what the OP reported, read above. Note my comment of "way too hot!"

[jasinth premkumar]

@Bigbio2002 hi,i just upgraded my RAM a month ago . freezing happened two times i had to force shut down my laptop. after the RAM upgrade it happens sometime does it cost any damage to processor or RAM ? what should i do as precaution or to prevent?(when it freezes all portsare working not functioning as it should but RAM seem's to go down ) P.S i have same spec's as old RAM for new one