Umbraco, is it just me or is it really hard to use?

Question

Looking for some feedback on those of you who have evaluated umbraco lately.

I've been on a quest for the 'best' cms that balances ease of use/extendability/customization etc. to use as a base for a new vertical product I am in the planning stages on, so for the past month or so I have been downloading, installing, reading source code and creating test sites in every asp.net cms I can get my hands on - and so far I have pulled down GraffitCMS, MojoPortal, Oxite, Orchard, Kuboo and maybe a couple of others that I am not remembering of the top of my head.

For each of those, except Umbraco, I have been up and running in less than a couple of hours, including adding pages, customizing templates, and in some cases (especially Graffiti), writing drop in widgets in C# in a matter of just a few hours....

But with Umbraco, after wrestling it for almost 2 days just getting it to run, and now another morning watching videos, and then building pages etc, I am still unable to even get even a simple site operational, and even the pages I have gotten working crash routinely (not to mention being a dog)...

So, the question is: Am I doing it wrong? or is it really that hard to work with? and more importantly, if I continue to push forward, will it be worth it? or do I cut my losses and move on?

Edit: asp.net with SQL Server support are requirements of anything I pick.

UPDATE ONE YEAR LATER (Feb/2011): My initial impressions are still accurate, Umbraco is different than most of the other CMS's that I have used in the past, and for me took a bit longer than usual to 'get it', but now that I have, I have to say I have a much better appreciation of the product, what it does, and how it does it - and to top it all of, it really performs really well - especially with the latest release of 4.6.1. So call me a convert - I am glad I stuck it out and then took another look. I only update this post now, over one year later so as not to leave my initial negative 'review' here for posterity.

Solution 1

The learning curve for umbraco is short but steep. Once it all 'clicks' then you'll be up and running in short order.

It's different from other CMS platforms in that you doesn't give you anything out of the box - just a blank canvas to work with. Other cms systems will set you up with a default template and allow you to drop in pre-built functionality. Umbraco is, by design, not like that at all. You only get out what you put in, it doesn't generate anything for you.

This is ideal for developers and designers who want 100% control over their code/markup.

Version 4.7 (currently in release candidate) introduces the Razor syntax for creating macros. This does away with needing XSLT+XPath which I think was a big stumbling block for a lot of people. Even if you're not familiar with Razor, it is much intuitive to learn than the XML based offerings.

The videos have been mentioned by other posters below. $20 is a small price to pay to get up and running quickly.

Solution 2

Does it matter? What I mean is, if you find it hard to use, and there are other alternatives available, why persist? If it's non-intuitive to you, then you're going to find it hard to use. If it doesn't have some killer feature you (think you) need, dump it and move on. You don't need the hassle of trying to wrap your head around some oddly-designed (to you) product, and the product's developers don't need the hassle of trying to support people who think their product should work in some way it wasn't designed to.

None of this is intended to be harsh, just practical. You have the freedom to choose, so choose what works best for you. This sounds like it isn't working, so move on. My brother-in-law wanted to buy a Volvo, but found the controls and dashboard totally confusing, so he wound up with a BMW instead. Nothing wrong with the Volvo, nothing wrong with my brother-in-law, just cognitive dissonance. Don't worry about it.

Solution 3

I've been building sites with Umbraco for something like 5 years now, and I don't recognize your description of Umbraco as a very difficult CMS, but I'll try to provide a few pointers here to help you if you're still considering Umbraco:

1. Go to http://our.umbraco.org, read the Wiki-pages, and post any questions in the forums there, it's a really friendly community.
2. Always use Microsofts Web Platform Installer when installing Umbraco, It'll help you create your site, and set up your database. Just be sure not to install Umbraco in a sub/virtual directory, since Umbraco can't handle a setup like that.
3. If possible, do your install on a development machine with IIS7 and SQL Server Express, it'll work for sure, and deployment of a finished site can be done with a xcopy transfer and a restore of a database backup.
4. Don't start a new Umbraco site, before you've coded the HTML you'll be using for the site, or at least have a really clear idea about the page types, and html content you'll need.

I hope I'll be seeing you on the Umbraco forums.

Regards Jesper Hauge

Solution 4

As a grizzled CMS veteran I can say that Umbraco is no harder to set up and use than many other CMS solutions.

However much of whether you find it hard or easy depends largely on your previous experience with CMS and your expectations for what a CMS should provide out of the box.

I've worked mostly with larger CMSs:

• Microsoft CMS
• Immediacy
• Obtree
• Reef (anyone remember that one!)
• etc....

Against those it is no harder to use and is probably easier as it tends to get out of your way and lets you get on with building the functionality you require.

However if your expectations are more based around things like Wordpress, i.e. install and go but with more limited options, then it can be hard to start with (if you just fire it up without installing a website starter kit).

My recommendation is that if you are building a small site you take a look at the Creative website starter kit at our.umbraco.org. There are also many packages that you can install to make things easier or add specific functionality (including pre-built navigation controls and full blog solutions).

Also take a look at the Wiki on our.umbraco.org and ask questions in the forum, the community is helpful and friendly.

Solution 5

Umbraco is a bit different than other CMSs like Sitefinity, DNN, or Drupal. It does compare well to Sitecore.

Yes, there is a bit of a learning curve. I think the XSLT can cause that, but more likely its just the fact that you have to understand how Umbraco is structured. There are very few "modules" out of the box that you have to arrange and style. Rather, it allows you to easily create your own structure and markup that doesn't force you into a box that is hard to get out of.

I've used Drupal, Sitefinity, WordPress, Sitecore, and some others and frankly Umbraco is my favorite. If you know how to develop great web sites and you don't want limits on your design, markup, or client experience then Umbraco is a great choice. If you aren't really building a site but just want to put pieces together and get "something" working, then it may not be worth your time. If you build lots of sites or want your end users to edit content easily (not just a big rich text editor), then it may be worth overcoming the learning curve.

The videos are totally worth the $20 to watch BTW. They are far better than any documentation you can find and after maybe 5-6 videos you should be "getting it". Just buy one month and cancel after that.

The community is awesome too. If you're struggling, head over to the http://our.umbraco.org forums and get some help. There's lots of it over there.

Also, try installing the Creative Web Starter Kit package or the Blog 4 Umbraco package to get a head start. Those will be more familiar to those coming from a Sitefinity or Drupal background and may help the learning curve flatten out.

Good luck!

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Comments

[Admin]

There is the option to use the Runway base system, which gives you a working website to start off with when you install Umbraco. Also, installing via the MS Web Platform Installer makes it near trivial to install. I had my first exposure to Umbraco two days ago, had a fully working system on install and came up to speed very quickly there after!

[E.J. Brennan]

I am going to give it another day or two and then make a decision. I don't mind a steep learning curve as long as it is worth it in the end - we shall see.

[ChadT]

Yes I know there is Runway, which is a good way to learn - but in most cases when building a site, you're not going to use it.

[Shea Daniels]

+1 for recommending the videos. I also found Umbraco a bit confusing at first, but I also wasn't that familiar with ASP.NET. The videos definitely helped.

[Aim Kai]

+1 completely agree with your comments here :)

[bbqchickenrobot]

BlogEngine.NET is not a true CMS system. It's a blogging engine.

[marc_s]

@bbqchickenrobot: that might be true - depending on your definition of CMS - but it works just fine for me.

[rboarman]

Your links are broken. Perhaps you can fix them up?

[dc2009]

"No wonder it hasn't taken off as a mainstream .NET based CMS."; the Microsoft websites asp.net and MSDN run on Umbraco, meaning it was chosen over their own WCMS product (Sharepoint) - you can argue that says a lot about their product, but it is not bad either for a non mainstream CMS ;-) I can tell you Umbraco is seriously taking off in a lot of web development companies (popping up in job requirements eg.)

[JotaBe]

If you're a somewhat expereinced .NET developer, this is a great solution, easy to install, and setup. For me, the demos worked perfectly at once, on every install. Of course you can install it without WbeMatrix at all and there are a lot of web hosting services that will install it for you. if you need a solution that works out of the box, clicking next, next, next ando configuring nothing at all, then use other tool. If you need a stable, solid, customizable solution that requires some learning, the use Umbraco. if you don't like this philosophy, please don't say incorrect things about it!!

[Nishant Kumar]

nishantwork.wordpress.com/2012/08/27/… This Link I found helpfull

[Robin Winslow]

+1 for "cognitive dissonance"

[John C Scott]

most of the videos are free these days too, at least the most useful introductory ones umbraco.com/tv

[John C Scott]

these days Razor support is good for anyone who doesn't want to learn XSLT - it's an argument as to which is better - but for a typical .net dev Razor is very powerful and very quick to learn (get the Razor cheat sheet from the Our.Umbraco.Org/Projects for a super fast intro)

[John C Scott]

you do not have to install umbraco from webmatrix - the full binaries are also available from umbraco.codeplex.com and useful documentation here too - just drop the binaries into an IIS7 application folder and off you go - it will do everything for the install for you

[noonand]

+1 on point #3 - I wasted a lot of time trying to get it working in a subdir

[Emiel Bruijntjes]

+1, especially for "ideal for developers and designers who want 100% control over their code/markup"

[Pure Function]

+1 thanks. I read a blog article about umbraco today saying I should "learn XSLT" I freaked out! seems like it was way outdate. Phew! Razor ftw..

[Kevin Williams]

I think I saw a discount for umbraco.tv (though I believe they are launching a new video training website).

[Vincent Vancalbergh]

Got my website (v-kwadraat.be) up and running in a matter of hours based on Umbraco 7 and the TXT Template. Followed by some tweaking afterwards. As a C#/ASP.Net developer I'm loving it. Just wish the API Reference documentation would update quicker :p

[Funka]

For posterity, two ways to avoid WebMatrix: Manual installation directly into your IIS website folder, or in Visual Studio create a new blank MVC solution and use NuGet to install Umbraco on top of it. Easy Peasy!

[RogerW]

Okay thanks guys. Maybe I was a little harsh on Umbraco. Sure, most good products require some learning. I think my frustration was just that you can't just hit the ground running and be productive with Umbraco. I'll give it another try, hopefully the learning material has improved now too.

[Siken]

The UI of version 7 is a big improvement. You should give it another shot.

[Siken]

XSLT was probably the clumsiest part of Umbraco -- now with version 7, you can just use Razor and regular MVC.

[Michael Freidgeim]

Slides presentation, not article

[camainc]

This slide presentation is useless without at least some notes.